hhmx.de

Föderation EN Fr 17.01.2025 14:03:07

dear software developers,

no, the opposite of "yes" was not, is not and never will be "ask me later".

sincerely fuck you

Föderation EN Fr 17.01.2025 14:33:23

@Codeschubse assuming you refer to website popups asking for permission to molest you - I assume, coders are not guilty of that, rather the UX-Psychos who invented all the dark pattern shit...

Föderation EN Fr 17.01.2025 17:11:48

@Reinald what is your point? UX is not a part of software development?

Coders have no capacity to unionize or seek legal counseling to and resist implementing abusive or illegal patterns?

People that are purposefully abusive towards users to maximize shareholder value have mental disorders?

I don't know no matter from witch angle I look at your post I don't like it.

Föderation EN Fr 17.01.2025 18:41:07

@betalars In too many enterprises
The majority of coders I worked with have been happy staying out of discussions about design decisions. For reasons I don't like, but can understand.

The majority of coders I worked with have not been unionized, and wouldn't escalate anything about a design decision they considered wrong/dark. Maybe if they would have been obviously illegal - but I haven't experienced that yet.

Abusive Assholes are most of the time just that - some folks call that a disorder

Föderation EN Fr 17.01.2025 20:38:31

@Reinald but then i understand why people are rightfully mad at developers in general, even tho many coders may build other sites if given other specifications.

Föderation EN Fr 17.01.2025 21:57:36

@betalars they should be mad at the UX designers. In many cases that I have seen, enterprises pay Design agencies for UX and UI and design language, and have development teams to implement this (inhouse or outsourced as well). Developers gave up on the issue of bad design - either they quit, or they just do as told. Getting into arguments hardly ever improves anything.

Yes, I am pretty frustrated about that as well.

Föderation EN Sa 18.01.2025 22:10:23

@Reinald @betalars the true culprit for such button labels are the customers (site owners) who asked for that. Usually news sites use these options so they can harass one later again.

Föderation EN So 19.01.2025 09:50:38

@betalars @Reinald most devs i know would just lie down and accept stuff in order to keep their jobs

and even if devs do speak up against it, modern programming tools have been literally designed to make us replaceable, company would have no problem finding someone fine with implementing it

Föderation EN Fr 17.01.2025 19:53:15

@Reinald @Codeschubse @patterfloof There's a few "yes/later" popups by MS in windows 11/office these days

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 13:58:13

@Reinald @Codeschubse I can assure you that UX people hate it too! The problem is the Product and Growth people

Föderation EN Fr 17.01.2025 15:45:47

@Codeschubse

And the opposite of "Do you love our app?" is not "mandatory text response explaining why in detail".

Föderation EN Sa 18.01.2025 05:46:44

@mattdm

@Codeschubse

You have found the first perfect use of ChatGPT.

Föderation DE Sa 18.01.2025 13:20:50

@Chip_Unicorn @mattdm @Codeschubse For writing "it sucks", I don't need ChatGPT.

Föderation DE Sa 18.01.2025 16:41:55

@1000millimeter

@mattdm @Codeschubse

But ChatGPT will be thoroughly happy to write pages and pages of "it sucks".

Föderation DE Sa 18.01.2025 16:57:46

@Chip_Unicorn @mattdm @Codeschubse I prefer clear wording rather than much bullshit. Especially when generating the bullshit harms the environment.

Föderation DE Sa 18.01.2025 23:56:37

@1000millimeter @Chip_Unicorn @mattdm @Codeschubse But "it sucks" might result in something like "too short - field must be at least 50 characters".

Föderation DE So 19.01.2025 13:30:15

@TimWardCam @Chip_Unicorn @mattdm @Codeschubse Copy & paste.
it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks it sucks

Föderation EN Fr 17.01.2025 16:13:24

@Codeschubse I'll just ask you again when there is an update that, without consent, resets all your preferences.

Föderation EN Fr 17.01.2025 16:49:53

@Codeschubse Not that I care a lot, but I think that is probably not an idea that the actual software developers are to blame for.

Föderation EN Fr 17.01.2025 17:04:25

@Codeschubse gilt auch für Männer.

Föderation · Fr 17.01.2025 18:47:42

their answert, I guess:

"Yes, but later."

Föderation EN Fr 17.01.2025 21:52:17

@Codeschubse sometimes, I have a dream: in every meeting at $company, there's one person whose ony duty is to check whether some shittification might just be about to happen.
And if they detect such a case, they punch the responsible person. In their face. Until they are reasonable again.

Föderation EN Sa 18.01.2025 00:00:20

@Codeschubse

Are you sure ?

Föderation EN Sa 18.01.2025 00:40:56

@Codeschubse It is the coding equivalent of "have you stopped kicking your dog?" There's no accurate option.

Föderation EN Sa 18.01.2025 17:31:45

@Codeschubse looking at you @element

No I will not ever verify your stupid account

Föderation EN Sa 18.01.2025 18:50:55

@Profpatsch @Codeschubse yup, verification should have happened automatically and invisibly as part of login from the outset, rather than letting users get into a state where you can't tell them apart from an attacker.

Föderation EN Sa 18.01.2025 23:02:39

@Codeschubse Change the prompt to:

"Can we put our penis into you? [Yes] [Ask Later]"

then you have the perfect corollary to the worst dudebro behavior, guys that just won't take no for an answer. But now they're product managers.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 13:53:45

@phaysis @Codeschubse

Been doing this for 30 years. I’ve learned two things.

1. It’s always DNS
2. If it’s not DNS, it’s PM

Föderation EN Sa 18.01.2025 23:35:30

@Codeschubse Software developer here. Sadly, it is not us who are to blame 😞

Föderation EN So 19.01.2025 00:00:40

@Ive because you're just following…

<strike>orders</strike> work assignments?

Föderation EN So 19.01.2025 02:14:31

@Unixbigot @dbdean this is brilliant! thank you!

Föderation EN So 19.01.2025 02:48:57

@Codeschubse @dbdean glad you liked it. More daily on the POST hashtag

Föderation · So 19.01.2025 00:49:44

@Codeschubse@ohai.social Wow, first time I read this I completely misunderstood it. I thought you were talking about how devs reply to feature requests, when there are people requesting a feature, who won't accept no for an answer, but will have changed their priorities in 2 days anyway...

Föderation EN So 19.01.2025 01:54:56

@Codeschubse @catsalad Please. No dev ever came up with that little slice of heaven. That stupidity came from PM.

Föderation EN So 19.01.2025 02:12:02

@chris and who is it who writes the code? dev or pm? @catsalad

Föderation EN So 19.01.2025 02:33:50

@Codeschubse @catsalad The better question: who determines the requirements?

Föderation EN So 19.01.2025 12:01:10

@chris no. it doesn't matter who comes up with bs requirements. if devs don't code it , they don't happen. @catsalad

Föderation EN So 19.01.2025 03:46:15

@Codeschubse
I wonder if they realize how much this type of wording infuriates people. One of the biggest things for me is Discord. I don't like having to download and install a new .deb package nearly every week but the thing that makes me hate the company with the burning passion of a thousand suns is that every single time they tell me that it's because it's my lucky day.

Föderation EN So 19.01.2025 10:10:02

@Codeschubse probably not software developer, but marketing and design push by c-level & a greedy board of investors.

Föderation EN Mo 20.01.2025 03:19:02

@Codeschubse
Me, rubbing my finger, now sore from bashing it on the "favorite" button, watching all the developers jump in whining "but, but, but ... / not our faulllllt..."

Föderation EN Mo 20.01.2025 07:12:58

@Codeschubse It's the product managers that are the evil ones, the dev just do what was detailed for them.

Föderation EN Di 21.01.2025 06:02:26

@Codeschubse It's not the devs, it's the marketers.

Fucking marketers.

Föderation EN Di 21.01.2025 10:33:48

@msbellows I didn't know the marketers were the ones coding, not the devs.

Föderation EN Di 21.01.2025 15:03:11

@Codeschubse I suspect you are willfully misunderstanding me.

Föderation EN Di 21.01.2025 22:01:54

@msbellows if you are hinting at irony/sarcasm, you might be right. I rarely get them on the first roll of the dice. I've got the autism debuff there. 😁

Föderation EN Mi 19.02.2025 12:11:12

@Codeschubse 👀 looking at Microsoft

Föderation EN Mi 19.02.2025 23:04:53

@Codeschubse It is awful that those in tech do not understand consent.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 02:20:47

@Codeschubse i think your talking about PMs and mbas not SWE

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 12:59:56

@Codeschubse
I wonder if the roots of this come from the japanese inability to say "no" to any request. You may get a "maybe". But never a "no".

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 13:06:16

@Codeschubse Dear rest of the world: we know. So do our UI/UX experts. Please direct this message to upper management.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 14:33:36

@dfyx because you are not responsible for your actions? because I'm your parent? because you are unable to say no? help me understand.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 14:58:41

@Codeschubse Because I get fired when I say no.

Edit: if you work somewhere where upper management has no opinion and lets developers create software that follows best practices and doesn't exploit the user, let me know. I'd be happy to work there.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 13:13:18

@Codeschubse It is a fine third option, but it's an extra option on top of Yes & No

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 13:18:52

@Codeschubse google has been asking me if I wouldn’t rather be using the Gmail app instead of the web site for roughly 10 years.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 15:33:10

@peterb @Codeschubse Google has been asking me if I want to switch to Chrome on my work computer (software load controlled by corporate) for roughly 10 years.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 13:23:25

@Codeschubse More sounds like a management decision, than a developer decision

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 14:30:35

@Flominator do the managers code or the developers?

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 14:33:18

@Codeschubse To me it more sounds like a manager wanting to have it implemented like that, than a developers coming up with it by themselves.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 14:37:35

@Flominator and… developers have no choice (as in conscience) to say no to such unethical crap? as I mentioned before — this "just following orders" is anything but decent behaviour. I should know, I'm German. been there, done that.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 14:07:18

@Codeschubse That's not a developer's decision. They've been reprogrammed by someone from Marketing.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 14:28:59

@woo what do you mean, that's not the programmers' decision? why? because they're just following <strike>orders</strike> work assignments? Interesting stance.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 15:13:46

@Codeschubse That's the cunning part. If you create a sufficiently poisonous environment, people will choose to do what they think they must, just to survive. Surely that's the point of Musk's random firings? It stifles resistance before it starts. Most people will keep their heads down if there's conflict.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 17:33:14

@woo I'm not ready to give up the hope that someday people will understand the meaning of the word solidarity and why it's the most powerful weapon against injustice.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 18:11:15

@Codeschubse It's a trigger-word for many who are not 'of the Left' though. I'm very slightly left of centre and I still think I smell the candles of Britain's miners strike whenever I hear it. I think Jeremy Corbyn might have been the UK's Prime Minister if he could have stopped himself saying "comrade" and "solidarity".

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 14:39:48

@Codeschubse this isn't software developers faults, it's management.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 17:38:20

@miah yeah! developers are just following orders. i get it. being German I've heard that one before.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 17:55:08

@Codeschubse I hear you on that! Unfortunately here in the states, many people have forgotten what happened in the '30s and are so in debt/have their heads in the sand that speaking up to their management is something they would _never_ dream of doing.

I've been the squeaky wheel always willing to push back against management and suffer the consequences for it. But at least I know where I (and my morals and ethics) stand =)

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 15:15:09

@Codeschubse When asking someone out, too.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 16:41:05

@Codeschubse software developers have as much to do with what the labels say as street sign painters have a choice in what to paint on the street.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 17:26:43

@dascandy Software developers have as much responsibility to refuse to do unethical stuff as street sign painters and every other human being. They're not excluded from humanity.

Föderation EN Do 20.02.2025 17:17:58

@Codeschubse someone should make a yin and yang symbol, but yin is "maybe later"